Re:Every Bob Dylan Song update 4 Months, 2 Weeks ago
Okay, this "The Time's They Are A-Changin'" piece is very wordy and I'm not gonna read it all.
first thing is you should proofread your work. This is your first sentence
"According to the always-correct Wikipedia, the final sessions for occurred on April 24th, 1963. "
I don't use a thesaurus but you can come up with another word for the "famous" March on Washington. I mean "the well-known" Second World War ?
Beatles for Sale ? a fine album indeed. One that was conceived under a far more pressure and time constraint than any of Bobby's early albums.
You title this as a post about the song but go on about the album.
"A narrow focus?" Ironically you voiced an opinion that Honey, Just Allow Me One More Chance seemed like Bob wasn't taking it "seriously". I haven't an inkling to what that's about.
and here's a given - if Clinton Heylin doesn't like it, it's good.
really though - there's so much to say about the songs on the album.
oh, the censorship wasn't "perceived", it was censorship. If you mean Bobby may have gotten on stage and sung it, a la the Doors, well ...
anyhow, as far as the song "The Time's They Are A-Changin'" you really don't say too much about that. Quote Tony Glover. Dave Van Ronk had the same take on Blowin' in the Wind.
Dylan "pandering". He wasn't pandering; whether he was using his talents to create something that wasn't heartfelt, that's for Bobby to know. It's a damn good song, and it was less mean-spirited in it's rightful form than it was say when the Byrds omitted "please".
He makes use of Biblical imagery, it isn't just like "the tanks are coming". I mean you contradict your criticism of one song by criticizing the very same thing in another song. He uses the very images of James Meredith at the University of Mississippi in this song.
well look, it lacks subtlety because it's meant to. Taken at the level of mere craft, it pointed out Dylan's ability to create a song that would not just satisfy an audience, but move them.
Re:Every Bob Dylan Song update 4 Months, 2 Weeks ago
i tend to think that Tony can take care of himself...he has written a review, and has requested comment. no need to attack those that oblige, MoonlightAlone.
i actually decided i would read the whole thing..and try to be open minded, even if i am very defensive of Dylan and his work..
clairdelalune is correct regarding the direction. i started reading this as a review of the album...and realized that the end brought us to the song.
i had a lot of issues with your assuming you knew how Dylan thought and his motives. this kind of thing erks the heck out of me...which is why i usually don't bother to read them...let alone comment.
in the end, you seemed to come to a realization regarding how the time at hand can affect not only the songwriter, but also the listeners. the last 3 paragraphs almost seem like they were written later than the rest, and they brought me back in.
to say that Dylan was pandering to the listeners when writing either the album or the song(?) is extremelly inconceivable....and i don't think Freewheelin' gained popularity in the mainstream...especially not that early on...if ever.... and rather than being an album he put out for others, rather than himself...i believe Dylan puts out music, especially at that time in his life, that he had to release from himself. he had to get it out. i have to take time to think about whether or not i think he ever puts out music for the audience, rather than just creating what is in him. i'll need to reflect on that one. but i don't think so.
to try to help you understand a little more about where dylan actually was coming from, i found a few sites of American history 1962 and 1963. i am posting the most thorough that i could find...and even that doesn't go into the detail of the civil rights movement, the events of which were very large influences. i am also including a link to a Timeline of the American Civil Rights Movement. it's a lot to read, but it's really informative. i found it to be, anyway.
i would suggest not relying on other writer's information and/or their opinions of Dylan. get it from his music and from the history at the time, since he seemed to be strongly influenced by the times. you can get some stuff from his interviews....but you even have to be careful with that...cause he is a wordster...and a trickster. i believe that if he took the interviewer seriously and respected them...he was more forthcoming and honest in his responses. Rolling Stone, Playboy, etc.
keep up the writing...and know your song well before you start singing.....though Dylan is a mystery.....and a complicated song at that... i hope you do check out these links and read through them all. times certainly were a changin' in those years
Re:Every Bob Dylan Song update 4 Months, 2 Weeks ago
and i suppose it's my business if i want to give my support. it's so easy to trash someone else's work... quite another thing to do your own. i'm willing to bet i'm the only person on this forum who won a literary award for fiction this year, so i'd guess that makes me qualified to give that kind of feedback.
some of you people are as much fun as a floating turd at a pool party, i swear.
Re:Every Bob Dylan Song update 4 Months, 2 Weeks ago
Sheesh...one thing I never expected from this project is that I'm starting to hate the 1960's.
Seriously, though, I do invite comment and do not expect all of it to be positive. I also, however, am not sure what to do when somebody says "this post is wordy and I'm not going to read it all", then proceeds to break down what WAS written like the Zapruder film. That strikes me like somebody's going through my writing with a magnifying glass, picking out nits.
Like, I mean, criticizing the use of "famous" in describing the March on Washington? It was a famous event. I suppose I could have used "earth-shattering" or something, but I use enough hyperbole in my writing; there are certain places I can tone it down.
I'd mentioned the strain on The Beatles surrounding Beatles for Sale. I think the strain produced a subpar album. That's simple opinion, nothing more.
Re: reviewing the album - that is a personal preference of mine in this project, using the first song of every album to talk about the album proper. I suppose I could've called the blog "Every Bob Dylan Song, As Well As The Albums Upon Which They Were Contained", but that seems unwieldy. The songs cannot be divorced from the albums that they were placed in.
BabyBlue, thank you for the links. I do appreciate them. I also know a teeny, tiny bit about what happened in the 1960s. I've read the occasional book on that era, how turbulent it was, how it shaped America, etc. I also didn't live through them. My opinions, thoughts, and perspective on that time will be skewed forever, in that sense; even if I were to take a week off, read everything I could about the 60s, and return to writing, there's only so much perspective I could gain and insert into my writing.
I also understand that Dylan's music is a product of those times, shaped by them, and indelibly stamped by them. I also think that focusing entirely on the 1960s w/r/t Bob's songs puts them in a box, where the songs mean nothing OUTSIDE those turbulent times. I mean, "The Times" may have been written as a song that addresses a generation gap at that time (whether or not he says so), but it's taken on many different forms since - anthem for future generations, nostalgia trip since 1974 and beyond, and even something as simple as a Greatest Hit or Essential Song of Bob Dylan.
Finally, you have to keep in mind that I'm not presenting myself as an expert or that I state that I know what's going on in Bob's head at ANY point. I merely note that Dylan had just released an album that touches many emotions right before The Times, and by comparison The Times touches less of them. I can't sprinkle "in my opinion" in every fifth sentence; that would drive me AND the readers insane. Disagreement with my opinions are fine. But I'm starting to feel like my opinions are coming across as rube-like, uneducated, and (worst of all) disrespectful of Dylan's era.
My apologies if I come across as defensive here. I'm not asking for encouragement or sympathy; as BabyBlue points out, I can certainly take care of myself. I'm old enough to, at least. You will forgive me, though, for feeling just a tad discouraged.
Stay in line. stay in step. people
are afraid of someone who is not
in step with them. it makes them
look foolish t' themselves for
being in step. it might even
cross their minds that they themselves
are in the wrong step. do not run
nor cross the red line. if you go
too far out in any direction, they
will lose sight of you. they'll feel
threatened. thinking that they are
not a part of something that they
saw go past them, they'll feel
something's going on up there that
they don't know about. revenge
will set in. they will start thinking
of how t' get rid of you. act
mannerly towards them. if you don't,
they will take it personal. as you
come directly in contact face t' face
do not make it a secret of how
much you need them. if they sense
that you have no need for them,
the first thing they will do is
try t' make you need them. if
this doesn't work, they will tell
you of how much they don't need
you. if you do not show any sadness
at a remark such as this, they
will immediately tell other people
of how much they don't need you.
your name will begin t' come up
in circles where people gather
to tell about all the people they
don't need. you will begin t' get
famous this way. this, though, will
only get the people who you don't need
in the first place
all the more madder.
you will become
a whole topic of conversation.
needless t' say, these people
who don't need you will start
hating themselves for needing t' talk
about you. then you yourself will
start hating yourself for causing so
much hate. as you can see, it will
all end in one great gunburst.
never trust a cop in a raincoat.
when asked t' define yourself exactly,
say you are an exact mathematician.
do not say or do anything that
he who standing in front of you
watching cannot understand, he will
feel you know something he
doesn't. he will react with blinding
speed and write your name down.
talk on his terms. if his terms
are old-fashioned an' you've
passed that stage all the more easier
t' get back there. say what he
can understand clearly. say it simple
t' keep your tongue out of your
cheek. after he hears you, he can
label you good or bad. anyone will
do. t' some people, there is only
good an' bad. in any case, it will
make him feel somewhat important.
it is better t' stay away from
these people. be careful of
enthusiasm...it is all temporary
an' don't let it sway you. when asked
if you go t' church, always answer
yes, never look at your shoes. when
asked you you think of gene autrey
singing of hard rains gonna fall say
that nobody can sing it as good as
peter, paul and mary. at the mention
of the president's name, eat a pint of
yogurt an' go t' sleep early...when
asked if you're a communist, sing
america the beautiful in an
italian accent. beat up nearest
street cleaner. if by any
chance you're caught naked in a
parked car, quick turn the radio on
full blast an' pretend
that you're driving. never leave
the house without a jar of peanut
butter. do not wear
matched socks. when asked to do 100
pushups always smoke a pound
of deodorant beforehand.
when asked if you're a capitalist, rip
open your shirt, sing buddy can
you spare a dime with your
right foot forward an' proceed t'
chew up a dollar bill.
do not sign any dotted line. do not
fall in trap of criticizing people
who do nothing else but criticize.
do Not create anything. it will be
misinterpreted. it will not change.
it will follow you the
rest of your life. when asked what you
do for a living say you laugh for
a living. be suspicious of people
who say that if you are not nice
t' them, they will commit suicide.
when asked if you care about
the world's problems, look deeply
into the eyes of he that asks
you, he will not ask you again. when
asked if you've spent time in jail,
announce proudly that some of your
best friends've asked you that.
beware of bathroom walls that've not
been written on. when told t' look at
yourself...never look. when asked
t' give your real name...never give it.
Re:Every Bob Dylan Song update 4 Months, 2 Weeks ago
if I write something positing an opinion about a work of art I'm not sure why I wouldn't expect responses. I don't want anyone to sit on the sidelines and lead the cheers.
that post was very long and i chose not to read it all. I had no interest in the digressions and the precious writing. This isn't a criticism of Tony Ling's writing ability. He's not bad at all.
you want to criticize my writing go right ahead.
it's the inverse of what moonlight alone states. we don't get much writing about anything of substance on these sites. on the Dylan Pool we had something called the "Song Oracle" where one might say anything about the song chosen that day. That was one of the few threads that made that site worth its weight in bytes.
whenever someone gets me to writin' i consider that somekind of props to them. take it how you will.
Re:Every Bob Dylan Song update 4 Months, 2 Weeks ago
how great that is Waist Deep! thank you for that!
MoonlightAlone...do we take you literally? congratulations on your award...be careful how you bet....but you're probably right...
Tony...i'm almost afraid to say anything at this point, after reading Bob's poem. i think i can only lose....
but i certainly didn't mean to discourage...and upon reflection, i didn't really provide much in the way of positive feedback, except regarding the last 3 paragraphs. like I said before...i don't usually get involved in these things...
bringing your opinion about Dylan's songs into a forum of die-hard Dylan fans of all ages and backgrounds, and asking for opinions....well...not everyone will agree with what you say...or think...and that's fine. you will most likely hear from those who disagree the most...and won't receive the positive feedback that would balance it out. but do not be discouraged. you are a writer....and there will always be people that disagree. none of the people will be all right all of the time. so shake it off and hang in there. it will be interesting to read your thoughts on a more current song...
Re:Every Bob Dylan Song update 4 Months, 2 Weeks ago
hmmmm... i'm not sure if it's your computer or mine babyblue, but some of that that post is garbled and i'm not sure what it says. if your congrats is sincere i thank you. i don't mean to toot my own horn, i just thought many of the posts in this thread were pretty nasty and it pissed me off.
let me express myself more politely. i'm sure tony wanted to invite feedback and that he's old enough and capable enough to defend himself. i'm simply saying there's a vast difference between presenting a differing opinion about a song or perception of a period of history and picking apart someone else's work in a destructive, nasty, negative way designed not to engender discussion but to belittle.
i was never on the old pool so i've no idea how it was. i do read the posts here though, and if i can count on the fingers of one hand the amount of times i've seen someone be kind or gracious, that's unfortunate... for them and for others. i certainly don’t want to fall into that category myself, so i’ll keep trying for that elusive restraint of pen and tongue.
i know what it’s like to be on the receiving end of cruel, nasty critiques about my work. one does have to develop a thick skin… but the ability to discern between a constructive critique and someone just being a jerk is also helpful.
Re:Every Bob Dylan Song update 4 Months, 2 Weeks ago
clairdelalune wrote:
QUOTE: and it would be help if you could have that perception.
i think my perception of you is dead on, absolutely clear. i'm quite comfortable with it.
had you been in a writing class with my old teacher and begun a critique with "i didn't read the whole thing" she would have thrown you out of class and used it as toilet paper.
Re:Every Bob Dylan Song update 4 Months, 2 Weeks ago
"it"? what?
i'm not teaching your writing class. by making it clear that I didn't read all of it, I'm stating that I didn't view that piece as a "whole" and can't treat if "fairly" as such. I'm not doing a critique at all, I'm making comments on what I read.
I can see that Tony Ling has talent and has put some work and thought into the Dylan song pieces.
Re:Every Bob Dylan Song update 4 Months, 2 Weeks ago
QUOTE:
that post was very long and i chose not to read it all. I had no interest in the digressions and the precious writing. This isn't a criticism of Tony Ling's writing ability. He's not bad at all.
Meaning no disrespect in the least, if you don't like the digressions and precious writing, I'd suggest reading no further. As has been previously noted, there is PLENTY of analysis/criticism/what have you in regards to Mr. Dylan. In a way, the digressions and precious writing are all that really separate me from the rest of the massive, MASSIVE pack. And, once again, that comes down to what you think of my personality as exhibited through my writing; if it ain't for you, it ain't for you.
And I'd like to have an end to the hostilities - I certainly did not want sniping in this thread on my dumbass account and my lil' ol' blog. Disagreements are perfectly fine, but vitriol over something as ultimately meaningless as my writing seems like too much.
Re:Every Bob Dylan Song update 4 Months, 2 Weeks ago
oh, this ain't vitriol. your personality isn't your writing and I already stated that "criticism" of Bob Dylan's songs is not something that interests me. I don't dislike digression, I'm the guy/girl who begins a novel with "... but I digress."
You don't hold any blame. Be glad you get a reaction. You're wrong about what makes your take on the songs different than the critics, the analyzers. I welcome the delving into sources real and supposed, and wandering off the main road to see what's behind the bushes.
Message Board 
i think i can only lose....