The Never Ending Pool

im surprised nobosy (inlcluding myself) mentioned "winterlude" which was the first recording that drew critical attention to the crooning side of bob dylan,with one reviewer likening the sound to "bing crosby on belladonna"

the nashville skyline sound, (gomer pyle on
helium?), was not considered crooning so much as country pie...

wurlitzer posted the following in the "The Definition of Crooning" thread (thanks, wurlitzer):

before coming to the final tally for bob's compilation of croon, i think we should refresh ourselves on the definition of crooning.

croon (krn)
v. crooned, croon·ing, croons

1. To hum or sing softly.
2. To sing popular songs in a soft, sentimental way

in accordance with this definition, i am amending my list (and bringing it to code with only 12 entries) many of the songs are disqualified due to their dynamics of their bridges, which bring the song up to an emotional pitch out of the crooning range (sign on the window, hazel, the man in me) and others, while they might be crooned, have an unsuitably unsentimental subject matter (license to kill)

here then, are my 12:

1.Corinna Corinna (Freewheelin)
2. Love Minuz Zero (Bringing it all Back Home)
3. Let it be Me (Self Portrait)
4.Spainish is the Loving tongue (Dylan)
5. Peggy Day (Nashville Skyline)
6. Winterlude (New Morning)
7. You're a Big Girl Now (blood on the Tracks)
8.Sara (Desire)
9. Covenant Woman (Saved)
10.In the Summertime (Shot of Love)
11.Not Dark Yet (Time Out of Mind)
12.When the Deal Goes Down (Modern Times)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _


[Warren, here.] Because wurlitzer has probably devoted more time and attention to the subject at hand than anyone, and has provided a definition of crooning, I am going to take my cues from him. He has cited some songs that DO NOT qualify as crooning:

- Sign on the Window (New Morning)
- Hazel (Planet Waves)
- The Man In Me
- License to Kill (Infidels)

If you cited any of the above four, they won't count in the final tally. Feel free to post a replacement.


wurlitzer, the following four were in your original list. Others have cited them as well. Do they qualify, as you see it? (I doubt that "I Believe in You" does.) TIA.


I Threw it all Away (Nashville Skyline)
I Believe in You (Slow Train Coming)
Most of the Time (Oh Mercy)
Bye and Bye (Love and Theft)

The word needs to be defined more tightly. There is a reason that Sinatra never sung Love Minus Zero. In my opinion, Bob has very few crooner songs outside the 1969-70 period. Perhaps only "Make You Feel My Love" qualifies. That some of the L&T and MT songs make allusion to pre-rock pop doesn't make them crooner songs.

Bob sings Love Minus Zero softly, with no violent modulation, and the lyrics are sentimental, but not ordinary. Sinatra would not have done many of Dylan's tunes because of the lack of sophistication in their melodies. bob does write the kinds of bridges sinatra goes for, though...and it is precisely these bridges that disqualify many of his songs from being crooned. sinatra's biggest strength wasnt his crooning (bing crosby had him beat in that regard) but in his swing...and love minus zero does not swing, and it would be embarassing to hear someone try to make it so.

in spite of its bridge, it think i threw it all away stays within the boundaries of the definition, because bob is fairly gentle with it. but i think peggy day is a better choice, if a far lesser song.

the bridge on i believe in you is way too passionate
most of the time is not sentimental enough. it is bitter and realistic.
and bye and bye is too biblical./surreal/vengeful with its final verse

there are many songs on the lists that i might disqualify as my own picks, but would not want to see eliminated as they reflect different but equally valid points of view. but i hope everyone who is sincerely interested in seeing an ideal crooner compilation applies this dictionary definition themselves to their picks and amends them as they see fit.

Thanks for excellent input, wurlitzer.

raggedclown, here's a bit more on the subject:

Main Entry: croon
Pronunciation: krün
Function: verb

Etymology: Middle English croynen, from Middle Dutch cronen; akin to Old High German cronen to chatter

Date: 15th century

intransitive verb

1: chiefly Scottish : bellow, boom [sounds like Bob to me. B) ]

2: to sing or speak in a gentle murmuring manner; especially : to sing in a soft intimate manner adapted to amplifying systems

transitive verb
: to sing (as a popular song or a lullaby) in a crooning manner

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/croon

NOTE: This thread has been a bit of an exploration and education. Rather than try to hurry the goal of this thread - to come up with (in wurlitzer's words) "an ideal crooner compilation" - to completion before the tour starts, it would be better, imo, to get more (not necessarily, different) song selections, input & dialogue.

For those who have already made selections, feel free to revise them. While I have no particular end date in mind, I see no reason not to keep the thread open for additional contributions and commentary through the weekend, at least. Thanks, everybody.

"Boston's Cardinal O'Donnell [in 1932] denounced crooning as a force for evil and invited parishioners to share his 'sensation of revolting disgust at a man whining a degenerate song unworthy of any American man'"
(from Gary Giddins' Bing Crosby bio)

i admit to the intentional omission of the scottish definition,as i thought it would confuse the matter. perhaps we could have a seperate poll for the scots.

When are you going to post the results? I'm getting so excited!

with all that said....i'm trading in The Man In Me and replacing it with:

On a Night Like This - Planet Waves ...or Biograph

i'm thinking it's within the definitions and may fit the profile?

> i'm trading in The Man In Me ... .

Duly noted, BabyBlue. Thanks.

If you think Love Minus Zero is the slightest bit sentimental, you have a different definition of the word than I do. Or the dictionary does.

after reading UTY's plea (different thread) If Not For You seems a natural here...
i should probably re-do my list...but in the meantime, i'm throwing them out as I think of 'em...

If You Were Compiling a Disc of ...
...Bob's Crooner-Styled Songs, What Would You Include?


More entries, please. Anywhere from one to 12, and it doesn't matter if a song has already been selected.

jeeze..

Problem?