The Never Ending Pool

raggedclown wrote:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:
I havn't followed this thread word for word, but I would like to ask you something. Do you believe there really was a man--a man, not a god--named Jesus who said at least some of the things attributed to him in the christian bible? I guess I am referring to a historical Jesus here, and nothing more.

Yes, I do believe that Jesus was a real person who said and did at least some of things attributed to him in the gospels. Though he certainly didn't rise from the dead.

Maybe I should start a separate thread, but if I could ask you something else--

What are the things you believe Jesus said and did which are attributed to him in the gospels?

saut de basque wrote:As I've often said, the Church doesn't subordinate either reason or authority to each other. Reason is used to more fully comprehend authority. Faith and reason are neither in a hierarchical relationship or at odds with each other; they are complementary. In other words, God speaks to us through both.[/quote]

This is simply your, if I may so, very complacent, assertion. The facts are (as I've attempted to briefly illustrate) that Christianity impeded the development of science and learning for almost 1000 years. Today too religion has set itself up as the enemy of science and the foe of reason. This is why I keep banging on about this subject, because a second dark age is upon us. The sleep of reason produces monsters.

raggedclown wrote:

QUOTE:
saut de basque wrote:As I've often said, the Church doesn't subordinate either reason or authority to each other. Reason is used to more fully comprehend authority. Faith and reason are neither in a hierarchical relationship or at odds with each other; they are complementary. In other words, God speaks to us through both.

This is simply your, if I may so, very complacent, assertion. The facts are (as I've attempted to briefly illustrate) that Christianity impeded the develop of science and learning for almost 1000 years. Today too religion has set itself up as the enemy of science and the foe of reason. This is why I keep banging on about this subject, because a second dark age is upon us. The sleep of reason produces monsters.[/quote]
We aren't living in the past, ragged, and my assertion is echoed by non-fundamentalist Christians around the world. Read, for example, John Paul II's 1998 encyclical, "Fides et Ratio." And the 16th Church hierarchy (and today's Intelligent Designer's) notwithstanding, Christianity's foundational role in the development of science is well known, though unacknowledged in some circles. Support your own claim, please. A second dark age is upon us, why, because pro-lifer's have moral qualms about stem cell research? Heck, you can find atheists and agnostics who agree with their arguments.

"I put my fingers against The Glass
And bowed my head and cried"

"I Dreamed I Saw Saint Augustine"- B.D.