The Never Ending Pool

not_henry_potter wrote:

QUOTE:
If you go back to the first post on this thread, it's some 16 months old. This is piss-poor pathetic. Not one thing has been changed for the better or upgraded, people's personal lives etc. notwithstanding.

This debate has been driven into the ground before, so I'm keeping this short. But as I've said previous, or someone said, this is not a pool, just a message board.

I will add one other item: You won't allow legit former members back in here (even ones who asked to be deleted), yet the place is over-run with 'bots' or whatever, which are allowed to bolster the memberhip numbers and serve no other purpose besides spamming.

I do respect Laughs like the Flowers, the rest of you are clueless dillitantes when it comes to your main topic.

Do you mean it's a pool, but not a message board? I don't understand. There's at least a pool and a message board here. At the very least TNEP has had a Dylan pool for every tour since its inception (circa 2007).

Who are these legit former members you speak of? Admin has removed bots time and again from here so that argument doesn't stick.

If you are going to critique, that's fine. But please at least be fair.

Tim Out of Mind wrote:

QUOTE:
Nutopia wrote:

QUOTE:
Tim Out of Mind wrote:

QUOTE:
Nutopia wrote:

QUOTE:
Tim Out of Mind wrote:

QUOTE:
Can we at least get monthly updates or something.

I remember when there was talk about the site getting a facelift, etc.

What's the deal?

Tim,
The good news is that I've become much more knowledgeable about the new CMS we'll be using for the NEP (which is Drupal, the same thing bobdylan.com uses.) We just decided to use it at work for our website and I've basically been mastering it there. The learning curve for these things is outrageously steep, but now that I've gotta grasp on it I'm more confident. The bad news is that I'm still waiting on some graphics/styles to be completed before I can finish things up. See the screen shot in this thread for an idea... that screen shot is not just a picture but is the actual site which is generally operational on my personal computer (it just looks like garbage when you drill into the sections.)
I've slowly been figuring out some of the data transfer items. This involves taking the old database (user accounts, profiles, permissions, forum postings, private messages, polls, tour stats, pool data, etc) and transferring it to the totally new database. We have to be careful doing that because we don't want to lose any content. This becomes very complicated because we are migrating from Joomla to Drupal, which handle all of these aspects in completely different ways.
As far as any updates to this actual site... I don't think there will be anything except bug fixes. Sorry if I didn't make that clear elsewhere in this posting. We're simply not going to invest the time in adding features to a site we're trying to scrap.
I hope this update finds you well.

Thanks, Greg. No, I mean even periodic updates for what's going on with the new site, etc. It's not a big deal if nobody else cares, but I'm interested in knowing what's going on, if there's anything we or I can do, etc. Everyone around here knows you guys have lives, you get busy, things change, etc. - just nice to get the 411 on this site and the new site.

Understood, Tim. I'll try to update more often. It's just tough because things happen incrementally and slowly. Something might take me a week to do, and the only description I could give is: improved CSS template or worked on data mapping for user permissions. Not very informative stuff to the general public, you know? I think part of it too is that when I do get home from work sometimes the LAST thing I want to do is spend the evening writing MORE code ;) I know the vast majority of our members appreciate and approve of our work, but it does suck getting railed against - but that comes with the territory, I guess - and ultimately deserved to some extent. Anyway, now that I've been using the same CMS at work I should be able to get more done a lot faster than I was before.

Right. Yeah, honestly if nobody else cares then you can just PM me every once in a while or just post to this thread anyway. I think part of it is people were told a long time ago. Not that that is bad, but if it's gonna be slow or whatever coming why not keep everyone up on what's going on. Can't please everyone, but you can please a lot of 'em probably. Thanks.

It isn't that we don't care, it's just that when we ask what's going on, we get reprimanded for being demanding ungrateful bellyachers. But it seems like whining long and loud is the only way to get a response. I understand and sympathize with Nutopia's explanation that change does not come in brilliant bursts, but small increments, so it must not seem like a lot of progress is being made to the people doing the work. A bit like watching grass grow. If it isn't too late, just an update every 2 or 4 weeks would be nice. It doesn't have to be dry, webdev gobbilty-gook, just a line or two to mark little milestones, or just that progress is ongoing.

somelocalloser wrote:

QUOTE:
Tim Out of Mind wrote:

QUOTE:
Nutopia wrote:

QUOTE:
Tim Out of Mind wrote:

QUOTE:
Nutopia wrote:

QUOTE:
Tim Out of Mind wrote:

QUOTE:
Can we at least get monthly updates or something.

I remember when there was talk about the site getting a facelift, etc.

What's the deal?

Tim,
The good news is that I've become much more knowledgeable about the new CMS we'll be using for the NEP (which is Drupal, the same thing bobdylan.com uses.) We just decided to use it at work for our website and I've basically been mastering it there. The learning curve for these things is outrageously steep, but now that I've gotta grasp on it I'm more confident. The bad news is that I'm still waiting on some graphics/styles to be completed before I can finish things up. See the screen shot in this thread for an idea... that screen shot is not just a picture but is the actual site which is generally operational on my personal computer (it just looks like garbage when you drill into the sections.)
I've slowly been figuring out some of the data transfer items. This involves taking the old database (user accounts, profiles, permissions, forum postings, private messages, polls, tour stats, pool data, etc) and transferring it to the totally new database. We have to be careful doing that because we don't want to lose any content. This becomes very complicated because we are migrating from Joomla to Drupal, which handle all of these aspects in completely different ways.
As far as any updates to this actual site... I don't think there will be anything except bug fixes. Sorry if I didn't make that clear elsewhere in this posting. We're simply not going to invest the time in adding features to a site we're trying to scrap.
I hope this update finds you well.

Thanks, Greg. No, I mean even periodic updates for what's going on with the new site, etc. It's not a big deal if nobody else cares, but I'm interested in knowing what's going on, if there's anything we or I can do, etc. Everyone around here knows you guys have lives, you get busy, things change, etc. - just nice to get the 411 on this site and the new site.

Understood, Tim. I'll try to update more often. It's just tough because things happen incrementally and slowly. Something might take me a week to do, and the only description I could give is: improved CSS template or worked on data mapping for user permissions. Not very informative stuff to the general public, you know? I think part of it too is that when I do get home from work sometimes the LAST thing I want to do is spend the evening writing MORE code ;) I know the vast majority of our members appreciate and approve of our work, but it does suck getting railed against - but that comes with the territory, I guess - and ultimately deserved to some extent. Anyway, now that I've been using the same CMS at work I should be able to get more done a lot faster than I was before.

Right. Yeah, honestly if nobody else cares then you can just PM me every once in a while or just post to this thread anyway. I think part of it is people were told a long time ago. Not that that is bad, but if it's gonna be slow or whatever coming why not keep everyone up on what's going on. Can't please everyone, but you can please a lot of 'em probably. Thanks.

It isn't that we don't care, it's just that when we ask what's going on, we get reprimanded for being demanding ungrateful bellyachers. But it seems like whining long and loud is the only way to get a response. I understand and sympathize with Nutopia's explanation that change does not come in brilliant bursts, but small increments, so it must not seem like a lot of progress is being made to the people doing the work. A bit like watching grass grow. If it isn't too late, just an update every 2 or 4 weeks would be nice. It doesn't have to be dry, webdev gobbilty-gook, just a line or two to mark little milestones, or just that progress is ongoing.

In fairness, I don't believe that I reprimanded anyone for being a demanding ungrateful bellyacher.

Obviously it's not an ideal situation but it is what it is and we are where we are, etc.

I agree with somelocalloser's point but understand where Nutopia is coming from too. It has been implied or stated before that we take our TNEP and don't complain, because some people did get together and put forth time, money, and effort to create the site; and any or most users are largely here free of cost.

As much as putting time and effort and money into improving the site or creating a new one exists, I would think it grossly unfair if its members, invited or otherwise, were not allowed to register complaints, make suggestions, wonder what's going on, or critique things they don't particularly like.

It certainly seems that somelocalloser cares, as do I, and probably so do other users (perhaps many). I also think a lot of us are reasonable here and understand the sacrifices that running the site requires admist all of life's circumstances.

Sounds like Greg (Nutopia) is willing and ready to keep us informed periodically, particulary with regard to the technical aspects of the site(s). I just hope if anyone is going to be critical they are at least fair about it, identify whatever problems exist, and offer help where they can.

I think a lot of people enjoy and visit the site, and participate in the pool (which TNEP has maintained ever since its inception after the old pool stopped; we've had a pool game here every Bob Dylan tour since TNEP began, like 3 years ago!). And, I think a lot of people that don't post or don't post regularly are more appreciative and reasonable than some of the people that do post.

Not_Henry_Potter, your comments here within the thread are completely out of line. If you'd like to further discuss your opinions on former "legit" users that have been removed, please do it privately, via PM, to myself or Thomas. If you'd like to contribute to this topic (Tech Feedback & Ideas for the NEP) in a constructive & respectful manner please do so. Otherwise, stop posting propaganda and/or personal attacks on this website. Thanks

QUOTE:
Nutopia wrote:

In fairness, I don't believe that I reprimanded anyone for being a demanding ungrateful bellyacher. :huh:

I meant it as a generalization, not directed at you Nutopia, and I hope you grasped that other part of my post where I understand that it's a process, and I would just like a simple update more frequently.

Every time I try to embed a youtube video (where's the !@#$%!!* Boardcode for that?!?, I curse under my breath). When I try to preview my posts in that teeny tiny preview screen. Or when I try to use "quote" marks or an ampersand & get a bunch extraneous letters- Yeeeeaaaargh. I get frustrated, and realizing that there is no point in fixing this broken forum, I just want the new board, and I want it now. Patience is the most thing I have least of.

And naturally 2 of the things I am complaining about seem to be working in this post.

somelocalloser - no harm done I understand. Heck, I don't even remember how to post a youtube vid! These 'rich text editors' (aka wysiwyg editors) are kind of set in stone. You can't manipulate them easily. I'll keep an eye out for one that handles youtube easily because that's a major part of our website/forum for sure.

In other news, I'm going to try to update you more frequently, as requested. Like I said, sometimes things are slow going but each stepping stone leads to a greater end. This week I FINALLY figured out how to fix an annoying white space that magically appeared in the footer of the new site. I also installed a CSS injector which allows me to manipulate the style of each object of the website individually. That CSS injector is a huge step forward for everything - and something I discovered through my experience at work. It really makes things easier to "look good" without having to update an overall CSS file which handles the website as a whole (which gets long and confusing... quite literally thousands of lines of code!) I've got a good handle on how I want certain objects to look on the main screen. The next problem is getting rid of some annoying lines that are appearing from nowhere!! I also need to figure out a better way to float the 'main image' with the 'main news' section of the home page. I'm thinking I might need to totally redo the layout.... keep in mind we want to place emphasis on the tour calendar and setlists - we are all about the Pool and Tour, so those definitely need to be highlighted for everyone.

I'm sorry it's not much, but I'm going to try to keep you guys in the loop more often! I'm honestly feeling excited about the new site, though. Once we get the forum styles figured out that'll be a huge step forward... hopefully that will come very soon!

Thanks, Greg. Any little update is certainly appreciated by me. Even if you were to update on problems or whatever...at least it's an update so I know what's going on. Just gives the whole thing more of a community feel; which brings to mind I hope the name does get adjusted to say "An Online Bob Dylan Community" instead of "The Online..."

Thanks for the update. Sounds to me like you did a lot.

Thanks a lot, Nutopia. Update infos are much appreciated!

Tim Out of Mind wrote:

QUOTE:
Thanks, Greg. Any little update is certainly appreciated by me. Even if you were to update on problems or whatever...at least it's an update so I know what's going on. Just gives the whole thing more of a community feel; which brings to mind I hope the name does get adjusted to say "An Online Bob Dylan Community" instead of "The Online..."

Haha... we're nowhere near working out verbiage for the new site, but when we do I'll try to remember that. When it gets to a point where we are ready for some testing I'll probably get a few folks willing to 'beta test' the new site and look for minor things like that which need corrected. Programmers typically aren't good at spotting "little issues" like that because we tend to focus on the overall functionality of the site, which is why we use beta testers.

Hi!
Unfortunately I was not able to work on the new site this past week. I scored a brief free lance contract which I need to prioritize in my free time because it pays. But, I should be relatively finished with that within the next week, then I will spend more time back on the new NEP.
Congrats to Canada on the big hockey win. I'm enjoying the closing ceremonies now.

Thanks, Greg. Wish we could upload our own photos or something again on this site. Also Jack Fate posted about a week ago on the main page an issue with the Draft players list and nobody (Admin) has replied. Congrats on the contract. I was rooting for the USA! Great tournament.

In lieu of the chat application we once had that we cannot have now given server constraints, what about a TNEP Twitter account?