The Never Ending Pool

"Everybody's got a hero these days...Here's...my hero..."



The Death of Socrates, Jacques-Louis David, 1787.

Resurrection, forgiveness, and God's love for you are good ideas. Therefore they can be justified by reason.

Have a great Easter weekend!

that was an interesting idea you had
in the garden


"As with many of the worlds great teachers, Socrates wrote
little if anything and it is principally through Plato's
Dialogues that the world knows him. Platos' contemporary
Xenophon also has an account of him. Diogenes Laertius attempted
to bring together all known Socratic lore."

Like Socrates, Diogenes Laertius didn't use sources, and he has
been, at certain times, discredited as well. Fortunately for
Diogenes, his personal times of mind were by no means united behind
the policies and activities that had come to be identified with Socrates.

We have more reliable resources for the life and death and teachings of Socrates than for the life and death of Jesus Christ, although, as what is important about Socrates is his love of truth and his ideas, it is of little importance where he ended and where his disciples, such as Plato, took over. As the first to insist on a rational basis for moral principles and virtuous action, he is the first to free us from the irrational tyranny of religion.

raggedclown wrote:

QUOTE:
As the first to insist on a rational basis for moral principles and virtuous action, he [Socrates] is the first to free us from the irrational tyranny of religion.

You can make a rational case for "love your neighbor as yourself" -- that is to say, a case based on self-interest -- but the beauty of Christ's injunction is that it transcends and sometimes appears to go against self-interest. In other words, it's the working definition of moral choice.

raggedclown wrote:

QUOTE:
We have more reliable resources for the life and death and teachings of Socrates than for the life and death of Jesus Christ, although, as what is important about Socrates is his love of truth and his ideas, it is of little importance where he ended and where his disciples, such as Plato, took over. As the first to insist on a rational basis for moral principles and virtuous action, he is the first to free us from the irrational tyranny of religion.

There's plenty of irrationality and madness outside of religion, you don't seem to want to see that.

QUOTE:
There's plenty of irrationality and madness outside of religion, you don't seem to want to see that.

Of course there is, why would I ever deny something so blindingly obvious? And so what?

raggedclown wrote:

QUOTE:
We have more reliable resources for the life and death and teachings of Socrates than for the life and death of Jesus Christ, although, as what is important about Socrates is his love of truth and his ideas, it is of little importance where he ended and where his disciples, such as Plato, took over. As the first to insist on a rational basis for moral principles and virtuous action, he is the first to free us from the irrational tyranny of religion.

I certainly wouldn't want to discourse about comparisons since
I know so little about Socrates. Jesus Christ was a scholar and with no doubt, he fully
understood the thoughts of his day.
Unfortunately, Socrates most certainly was an example of
what can happen with new ideas and
thought provoking conversation.
Am I right to accept that he died as a result of a little
more than a majority vote, taken from about 400
or so lay people?

Socrates didn't rise up again however.

Nor did Jesus.

raggedclown wrote:

QUOTE:
Nor did Jesus.

http://www.apostles.com/apostlesdied.html
These guys saw Jesus crucified. Strange that they would brave crucifixion themselves for saying he was resurrected unless they'd actually seen him resurrected.

a line of prisoners files past a jailer]

Coordinator: Crucifixion?
Prisoner: Yes.
Coordinator: Good. Out of the door, line on the left, one cross each.
[Next prisoner]
Coordinator: Crucifixion?
Mr. Cheeky: Er, no, freedom actually.
Coordinator: What?
Mr. Cheeky: Yeah, they said I hadn’t done anything and I could go and live on an island somewhere.
Coordinator: Oh I say, that’s very nice. Well, off you go then.
Mr. Cheeky: No, I’m just pulling your leg, it’s crucifixion really.
Coordinator: [laughing] Oh yes, very good. Well...
Mr. Cheeky: Yes I know, out of the door, one cross each, line on the left.

Martyrdom is a pretty poor way of "proving" anything, as we should be only too aware nowadays. And in the course of centuries, the "one true church" has offered plenty of examples of preferring whatever serves its interests as "true." Why should the apostles be given the benefit of the doubt?

I hope you boys can settle this soon. There are an awful lot of people who would really like to know if there is a god or not.

He did say He would rise.
And no one else said they would rise.

Seems to me it, the original subject matter here,
was probably a false indication anyway.